Beyond Borders: The New Era of Gaming and Culture

Tom Leonard 

I'm Tom Leonard. I'm the host of the Gamers Change Lives podcast, where we talk about how e-sports can create jobs anywhere in the world. Play games, create jobs, change lives. And in season one of the podcast, we talked about jobs. In season two, we called it Follow the Money. We talked to investors. We talked to sponsors. And in season three, we talked about business basics. And now in season four, we're having a new theme called Accelerating esports Success. So we're going to be talking to people around the world. We're going to be telling the stories of how entrepreneurs can tap into resources provided by accelerators, incubators, and other platforms to improve their business skills. The goal of the conversation is to provide information and inspiration to e-sports entrepreneurs and others, other entrepreneurs, both new and established to seek tools, to seek training, mentorship, networking, and, and more through these established platforms. I am really happy here tonight to be able to have Sho Sato, who is the CEO at LUDiMUS. He's a co-founder at IGI, mentor at FITOKIO and about 20 other things. So this guy is busy. Welcome Sho.

Sho Sato 

Yeah, hi. Very nice to meet you. Yeah, my name is Sho Sato. As Tom mentioned, I'm the CEO at Ludimus Inc., a game consulting company, and I'm also the co-founder and the Secretary General at ED, the first and only game incubation program in Japan. And also I'm currently leading the CIGU incubation by IGDA. Yeah, so yeah, it's really great to be here. Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

Welcome. Where are you speaking to us from?

Sho Sato 

Yes, I'm currently in Tokyo in Japan. Yeah, it's in the hard to say, very daytime here.

Tom Leonard 

Yes, yes, yeah, we get to learn about all kinds of time zones here. So, the first question we always ask, are you a gamer? Do you play games? What do you play?

Sho Sato 

Mm-hmm. Yes, definitely. I'm a gamer. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's great. Arcade game, console game, PC game, mobile game, and TRPG, tabletop game, board game, card game, alternative reality game, average games. So actually, and recently, I really love to play the like, how can I say, like indie games, as well as some big titles. Yeah, I actually am a kind of all-round gamer, kind of.

Tom Leonard 

What did you start out playing?

Sho Sato 

Recently, yeah, actually I can say that my favorite games are divided into three parts, first retro games like the old kind of the games like Nintendo or like for example Atari or yeah such stuff. Second thing is more like the kind of old stuff ball game, or any card game. One of my favorite things is whenever I visit some other countries, I purchase the kind of historical ball game into these countries. For example, did you know that in Asian countries, each country has its own type of chess. For example in Japan, we have shogi. This is a very Japanese style of chess. Meanwhile, for example in China, they have shanqi. And in Thailand, they have a Macrook. In Myanmar, they have a Shitwing and so on. So I love to collect such, how can I say, historical board games as a kind of reference to the, how can I say, the game design. And sometimes, how can I say, I played these games with a game designer in Japan as well. And the third thing is about the recent indie games. I mainly like simulation games, the simulation of the profession or the simulation of the kind of jobs. I prefer to play like for example simulating like an engineer simulating a car mechanic simulator or the yeah for example car mechanic simulator, farm simulator, or some how can I say, simulation game focusing on the mining. Yeah, some strange stuff, so yeah. So yeah, they are my hard-casing favorites. But actually, I also love the kind of big titles, like of course the JRPG as well.

Tom Leonard 

I saw the other day on Game Pass something about like goat simulator.

Sho Sato 

God simulator, yes definitely yes exactly Yeah, it's yeah, it's popular. Yes, and I love to do hard cases. Please search for a hard case Simulator and simulation. Yeah both of them. Yeah

Tom Leonard 

And I was thinking, I was just like, that's not for me, but it seemed to be really popular.

Tom Leonard 

Yes. We always hear that in Asia, mobile gaming is more popular than any other format. Is that true in Japan?

Sho Sato 

Definitely. According to some statistics, mobile games occupy 60% of the total game market in Japan. Meanwhile, console games occupy 30% and 10% belong to PC gaming. But the hard drive installation rate of PC gaming is increasing recently, so its percentage is going up.

Tom Leonard 

Which one is going up?

Sho Sato 

Yeah, PC games. Yeah, PC game, PC online game, or like a Steam game or such things. Yeah, 10 years ago or 20 years ago, PC gaming was not so popular in Japan. Yeah, it's a very different tendency compared with Korea or China. But yeah, in Japan, because of the, how can I say, COVID era, at the time, the people tended to play the new games from Steam.

Tom Leonard 

PC, oh, okay.

Sho Sato 

So for example steam users in Japan have doubled. I heard from the 1% of the whole population to the 2% or the 2.5% So I think yeah, it becomes a hard case. It's much popular than it was

Tom Leonard 

That's interesting. One of the things I wanted to point out here is that your background is in game development. And the kinds of things that we're gonna be talking about today are primarily about game development, not e-sports. We've always, we've, you know, we've concentrated a lot on e-sports, which is, you know, the competitive playing of video games. But when we're talking about accelerators and all kinds of entrepreneurial tools and organizations, your experience is in the game development side. Is that right?

Sho Sato 

Yeah, actually, one of my main jobs is to support the game developers. Yeah. And actually, I'm actually the, how can I say, I started my career as a consultant for the game development companies in order to help them to work with the international game studio, as well as some, how can I say, some partners for the various regions, especially in the emerging countries. So yeah, actually, how can I say, I'm more focused on the development side than the eSports side.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, which is fine because one of the things that we're finding in talking about these kinds of topics is that entrepreneurs from any industry can benefit from using these organizations. So that's fine, just wanted to point that out. So LUDiMUS, were you the CEO? What is LUDiMUS? Am I saying that right?

Sho Sato 

Yes, “Ludimus” means “we play” in classical Latin. Actually, my major was, how can you say, the world history of philosophy and religion at the time of Kyoto University. I studied classical Latin, classical Greek, and some other classical languages. So that's why, how can you say, when I start my own company, I choose the word from classical Latin.

Tom Leonard 

Great. So what does the company do?

Sho Sato 

Ah, yes. We are doing the consulting work for the game, anime, and manga. Our specialization is to help the game companies to expand their business into the international market, especially in the emerging countries, like the Middle East, India, Latin America, and Africa, and so on. Before I worked in Japan, I had worked in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, and I worked with a lot of Arabic game developers to expand their business into Europe. So that's why I have a lot of connections in Arabic countries. That's why my major focus is in emerging countries.

Tom Leonard 

Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because so much of our audience is from emerging markets around the world. And so could you talk a little bit about what your experience has been? How are things different in emerging markets than maybe they are in Japan and the United States, Europe?

Sho Sato 

Yeah, very good question. I think the emerging countries in view of the marketing, mobile game is very strong compared with Japan or the US. But at the same time, they have a very strong community of the console and PC game at the same time. But actually, in general speaking, the percentage of the mobile game market is very strong. And actually, it's a very young market at the same time. For example, if you look at countries like Japan or Korea or Europe, it's kind of an aging society and older people also play games. But if you look at emerging countries, the majority of the gamers are younger people in their 10s or 20s. And of course, if we connect to the topic of e-sports, they are very streaming-driven, esports-driven, and they are very fond of the new technologies related to gaming, I think.

Tom Leonard 

It's an interesting perspective to have so much experience on both sides so you can kind of get a feel because Japan is kind of like all by itself. I mean, it's way up there in the game development side of things. So back to LUDiMUS, what got you started in creating it? Because one of the things that we always talk about here, we always like to talk about beginning stories because that's what inspires other people is like, oh, that's kind of what led to that.

Sho Sato 

Ha ha. You're right.

Tom Leonard 

So can you talk to us a little bit about what led you to create LUDiMUS?

Sho Sato 

I founded LUDiMUS three years ago. At the time, I worked in the game market in Think Tank before that. I made a report about the game market in emerging countries for like five years. I made a report about the game market and game development in India, Brazil, Lhasa, Central Asia and some others. And through my experience in the five years, I feel that the Japanese game companies and some Asian companies have a demand to get consulting in view of expanding their business, especially in the emerging countries. So that's why I changed my job from making a report to doing consulting and matching. Because in the emerging countries, they have a lot of various kinds of stakeholders related to the game industry. And these people sometimes have a different custom and a different way of thinking. And sometimes it's a little bit difficult to understand from the Japanese company's perspective and Asian company's perspective. So I feel the gap between these things. So that's why I started my own company.

Tom Leonard 

What role does language play in working with so many different cultures? Because you, I mean, obviously, almost every country you've described there has a different language to deal with. How do you deal with so many different languages?

Sho Sato 

Yeah, actually, you know that, how can I say, in Japan, we have a really big language barrier. And for non-Japanese speakers, Japanese is a crazy language to study. I know that. But yeah, of course, how can I say, language barrier is always a big issue for the Eastern Asian market. But when I visit some other countries, some people more or less feel the similar problem. For example, when I visited one country in Latin America, I got a heart attack. At the time of the heart attack, during COVID, I visited one country in Latin America. And then I needed to visit the hospital. And the other time, I tried to talk in English, but nobody could understand. Even for the way to say doctor, or even for the lawyer or such people. So that's why, yeah, I use a lot of, I use machine translation a lot, so frequently, in order to, how can I say, tell them in Spanish, like, carry, forever, like that. So yeah, at that time, I really felt the need to study other languages at the same time. Before that, as I told you, my major was philosophy and religion, and so that's why I am good at reading and writing, but I didn't do the speaking and listening at the time, especially for the non-English, non-Japanese language. But after this experience, I exactly feel the hard-to-see needs of studying in the various languages, even in the speaking side.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, yeah. One of the things that you see so much around the world is on the gaming side, it's like people can watch people playing games in other languages and still get excited and still understand what it is that they're doing. I mean, if they play the same game, I mean, they don't necessarily need to know everything that's being said, but they can still. It's like the game is a separate language that kind of connects people there.

Sho Sato 

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, for example, when I look at the country like India, yeah, India has a lot of, lot of languages, not only Hindi, but also like Malayalam or the Telugu or the Karnataka in Canada and so on. And actually, for example, in the like a movie, as for the India movie, they are localized into the various local languages in India. But as for the digital game, it's super difficult to localize into the various Indian languages, actually. I've never seen a HLKNC such a game with localizing into multiple Indian languages. But at the same time, I also feel the HLKNC need of the help by the local language speaker at the same time. In India, for example, if you look at the very popular game like PUBG Mobile, a player who knows Battleground Mobile, it is not so localized into the local language. However, streamers and e-sports players do a very important job for that. They are, as you can see, doing streaming and speaking in their own language in order to explain into how you can see each local language speaker in Tamil or Telugu and so on.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, yeah. We could keep talking about this. I want to get back to you, because I think this is really interesting. And it's one of the things that in talking to you, you have so much experience in international areas. So, but really, what I wanted to talk about the most with you is on accelerators and incubators, because one of the things, as I said before, one of the stories that we're trying to tell this season is that there are organizations out there, whether they're incubators or accelerators, where entrepreneurs can get help to build their business side of things. One of the things that we seem to find is gamers usually come to it from the gaming side. They're gamers. As they get better and better at gaming, then they think, wow, how can I make this into a living? How can I do this for my work? And so the business skills are not at the same level as the gaming skills. And there's organizations out there that can help. Could you describe maybe in a little more detail, what's the difference between an incubator and an accelerator.

Sho Sato 

I understand. Actually, an incubator is a helper for the game developers in view of the business side and development side. Actually, for the game developer, it's quite important to improve their skill on both sides, I think. But what is the accelerator? Usually, it depends on the definition of each accelerator, honestly speaking, but if I do some definition, it's a combination of investment and incubation. Yeah, for example, certain game acceleration programs provide a training program for the game developers. And then at the end of the training program, they provide investment into each team. So I think investment from the incubation program makes a difference between the incubator and accelerator.

Tom Leonard 

So you're saying that the incubators have the opportunity to provide financing? Or do I have it backwards?

Sho Sato 

No incubator, sorry, maybe my explanation is bad.

Tom Leonard 

No, no, I could have just easily misunderstood. Don't worry. That's why we could be. That's why I wanted to ask to clarify it for me.

Sho Sato 

Okay, the incubator is just working for the training program. Accelerator is working not only for the training program, but also for the investment. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

Got it. OK, no, I had it just backwards there. So what is the best way for entrepreneurs to find out about the programs that they might qualify for? Is that just looking on Google? Or do you have other suggestions on how people can find these kinds of organizations that will help them?

Sho Sato 

Hmm. Yeah, it's also a very good question, I think. Usually, the style of incubation program is very different in each continent, I feel. For example, in Europe, the game incubation program is located not only in the game incubation program, it's located in almost all of the European countries, I think especially in the Western Europe, it's true I think. For example, if you look at the country like Sweden, these incubation programs are located in each region, like in the Western part of Sweden, Northern part of Sweden, Southern part of Sweden, and Stockholm and so on. Yeah, so for the, how can I say, people living in Sweden, it's easier to, it's a great idea to work with a local game incubator at that time. Meanwhile, for example, if you look at Latin America, they don't have such a density of the game incubation program. For example, they have some exceptions, like for example, in Argentina, they have two game incubation programs. But if you look at Chile, they don't have a training program, but they don't have the exact meaning of the incubation program, actually. So in this case, the best thing is to find a game incubation program outside your country sometimes. So for example, in this case, it's also a good idea to find the game incubation program working for international game developers. Maybe how can I say, if you find a search organization in the same language speaking region, it could be very, very helpful. Yeah. For example, like a game incubation program in Spain or the game incubation program in Eastern America and so on, yeah, could be very helpful for them, I think.

Tom Leonard 

How about, I know this is great because you're going through some of the continents. What about in South Asia?

Sho Sato 

South Asia, India, okay. Yeah, it's also a very interesting region for game development. Actually, as far as I know, the game incubation programs are so far located only in India as for South Asia. I checked with people in Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka, but they don't know the actual meaning of the incubation program so far. If you look at say South Eastern Asia, as a whole representing South Asia, then South Eastern Asia also has a lot of incubators. But actually, as for South Eastern Asia, each country, like a bigger country, like in view of the economy and the population, like Indonesia, Thailand, these countries have their own incubation program, actually. Meanwhile, for India, you know India is a very big country, and interestingly, we saw that they have multiple game incubators in some regions, which is supported by educational institutes. This is a very interesting tendency, I think, because if you look at European incubators, they are almost publicly funded. Meanwhile, in Eastern Asia, like in China and Japan, they are privately funded. But in India, they are supported by the educational institutes, kind of the third party. So it's a very interesting tendency of Indian game incubators.

Tom Leonard 

What about the Middle East where you have experience and in Africa? Are there incubators there and do they operate differently from other places that you found?

Sho Sato 

Definitely. As for the Middle East, let's say Saudi Arabia is leading such kind of game incubation. For example, like the Savvy Games Group, which is also a very big player in the esports scene, because it purchased ESL, FACEIT and some other esports organization, I think. But it's also a very important part of the game developers ecosystem in Saudi Arabia. And they do like a game incubation program for the Saudi Arabian game developers. And ]it's more similar to that of the European incubator. It's publicly supported, publicly funded. But it's more, how can I say? It's more, how can I say, based on the national strategy because the Saudi Arabian government made a strategy about e-sports and game development for the year 2030. And they also say that they need to make hundreds of game studios as well as some hit players. Yeah, so that's why, how can I say, it's the government, it's kind of the national-led program for such things, I feel. And yeah, if you look at the Harkese African region, I closely work with a game inhibition program in South Africa. And, at the same time, they have some Harkese game inhibition rated organization or the game training organization in Ghana, Kenya, Tunisia and Senegal. And they are doing a really great job. And I also talked with, yesterday I also talked with guy from Zambia and he's a game developer in Zambia and he really wants to make his own game incubation program. So yeah, I hope this thing could work for them.

Tom Leonard 

No, I think it's really, really interesting to see the difference in different parts of the world, just like you're describing. Sometimes it's private, but in many places. Because here in the US, I mean, the government is not doing things like that. Different universities, different colleges may be doing things along those lines. I'm not aware of a lot of that, but certainly it's interesting to see in some places that the government stepped in. So let's say if you are an entrepreneur and you found an incubator, an accelerator that you want to apply to, do you have any advice on what's the best way to make yourself look, especially if it's a competitive type of organization, what's the best way as an entrepreneur to prepare yourself to improve your chances of getting accepted?

Sho Sato 

I think in order to work closely with the incubation program, I think you need three things to improve yourself. First, of course, your game is super important. Making a better trailer, making a better game system is of course a very important part for applying for the program. Second, improving the pitch is super important. Because pitch is the most important communication tool, not only with incubators, but also with publishers and investors. Yeah, even in the countries of Japan or China, the incubator asked the game developer to make a pitch in English as well. Because if you cannot speak international language, you cannot reach out to the international game publisher and investor. And third part, to understand the business side of game development. This is super important. Because for the game developer, they really want to make their own game a very interesting game. They have a really strong passion for making games. So as for the development side, they are the professionals. But as for the business side, it's sometimes super different. And they don't want to focus sometimes. So that's why, oh, I don't want to understand how to register your company or how to work with investors is a little bit too busy for us or such things. But actually, if you look in the long-term perspective, if I look at the various gaming studios, it's also very obvious that the game developers, with a clear understanding of the business side, have a better success rate, I think.

Tom Leonard 

That is really, really good advice to make yourself stand out, to show that you have an understanding of the business side of it as well. So let's say if you've been accepted and you're going through a program, what are the kinds of things that you should do to get the most out of it? Because we wanted, you know, it's like, okay, sometimes people think that getting in is the hard part. And once you're in, then, oh, then you're just gonna coast. But it's like, no, it's like getting into school. You get into a really good school. That's just the beginning. I mean, then, you know, so do you have any ideas, any thoughts on what kinds of things, what kinds of things do you see that people who get the most out of the program, what is it that they're doing?

Sho Sato 

Hmm. Yeah, actually connecting with a mentor is super important after entering your incubation program and acceleration program. Actually, the Incubation program provides our training program. It's true and Training program is very helpful. But at the same time the game incubation program is a help for the network for the game developers Actually, these are mentors and are the kind of the very important role, kind of the game development mentors, game business mentors, have a very, very strong network with other important people in the game industry. So that's why, for example, if you take on the lecture course or the sort of things after that, it's better to connect them with a “Hi! I have a question, I have several questions and some questions about related to my gaming” and yeah, and of course, how can I say I can help you do something but yeah, you can It'll be great if you give me advice what does things yeah such a hard can see the How can I say I don't know? It's an exact world, but yeah, kind of hard to say, a very active learner and active networker is a kind of a success. It could be a big success, getting a lot of things from incubators and accelerators. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

And then really good advice there. And then what about after you finish? So it's like, let's say you've gone through and you've been successful, maybe you even got some funding or so on. What can you do afterwards to also get the most out of the program that you've gone to? Is it networking? Is that the most important part afterwards?

Sho Sato 

Yes, I think so. Of course, how can I say the game incubation program uses various schemes and some of the schemes are different in each region. However, the networking part is always super important because some of the game incubation programs are working with the government, educational institute and various companies and for example in my incubation program in Japan, we closely work with like 100 game publishers and like how do you say, 1020 of the game investors. And yeah, for the alumni, how to keep connecting with such people is super important. Because actually you are making your first game, maybe, but you need to make a second game and third game. And then at that time, such a connection should be very important. Even if you don't work for the sorting game publishers at the time of the first game. Yeah. So that's why I keep connecting with such stakeholders. And it is super important online. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

Could you describe, maybe it's more for me than anyone else, the relationship between the game developer and the publisher?

Sho Sato 

Yeah, actually, for the indie game developers, they have several ways to release your game. You can, of course, release your game onto Steam or H.io or some other platform by yourself. But today, in today's game economy, it's very, very difficult to make visibility to the game users. In this case, if you don't have a very strong marketing resource, it's sometimes better to work with a game publisher. And then they have a lot of indie game publishers working for such indie games and game entrepreneurs. Some of them are working for PCs, others are working for mobile, and still others are working for Excel. Yeah, so that's why connecting with a game publisher is super important for the game developers. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

Is it? Can people that don't have a business yet, but they just have an idea, they don't have a game yet, or even close to having a game, but they just have an idea. Is there a place for them in the incubators?

Sho Sato 

It depends on the scheme, I think. For example, in the case of my incubation program in Japan, we required them to make a minimum playable demo. But meanwhile, in some European game incubation programs, they just required one person who really wanted to make their own game teams and so on. So it depends, honestly speaking.

Tom Leonard 

Again, it goes back to research, figure out what works there. Would you suggest that people go through multiple programs? Or is that going to be kind of a waste of time? Or is it going to be even hard to get into another program if you've already been through one program?

Sho Sato 

I think it's also good to work with multiple incubation programs sometimes. For example, if you are working for the game incubation program at the first, it's also a good idea to work for the acceleration program for the next. Well, for example, in the first case, you will work for the game incubation program focusing on the Asian market. And the second, you will go to say a game incubation program focusing on the western market. It could be fine, I think.

Tom Leonard 

Makes sense, makes sense. What about the difference between online and virtual and in-person programs? Or there's probably some that are mixed. What's the best one? What format do you get the most good out of?

Sho Sato 

Yeah, I also saw the Halkenian Sea. Some of them are working for the online program, others are working for the offline program. And actually, offline programs are good for team building. In my opinion, it's kind of in my personal opinion, but for the region, which has a lot of Halkenian Sea, the game developers with multiple people team. In this case, a physical incubation program is very helpful because sometimes you need very close communication with other team members and some other stakeholders. And yeah, in this case, an offline program is very helpful. Meanwhile, they have some regions which have a lot of solo game developers and they don't want to make a bigger team. I like to mention two examples, Japan and Saudi Arabia, somehow. These two countries tend to make a kind of such a solo game studio or the solo game developer according to my experience. And then in this case, you don't have to work for the offline program. Maybe how can I say it's good to attend the demo day Offline demo day, but I thought that if you don't train you don't have to attend the offline lecture or such things. Yeah it's just my opinion, but yeah

Tom Leonard 

No, that's what we're here for because you have more experience than most people out there. So what is there going on in the accelerator incubator world that gets you the most excited? What is it that you're seeing coming down the road in the future that you think that's going to really make a difference?

Sho Sato 

Yeah, actually I'm so surprised that for example, 10 years ago, the number of the game incubation program and accelerations program are super limited. Like how can I say, in the world, like 10 or 12 or 16. But now I make a list of the game incubators, accelerators around the world. And this list is right down to like 50 or 60 game incubators, accelerators around the world.

And I even see that 30 or 40 organizations plan to make their own incubation program in countries like the US, Canada, and some other regions. So that's why some of the countries really feel the importance of such game-focused incubators. This is really an impressive model for me.

Tom Leonard 

What's the future of AI? This is the question of the day. It's like, what's going to be the impact of AI on the game development world?

Sho Sato 

Yeah, I think so far, the relation of AI is kind of different in some of the regions because of the judgment for the courts, I think. But actually, how to say, they have some impacts on the application. And some of the game incubators could welcome such AI-based gaming. But some others don't approve of such AI-focused gaming, I think. So it depends on the, how can I say, the deals of the incubation program or acceleration program, I think. However, if such a game incubation program, if you focus on the game incubation program, if the one, certain game incubation program focuses more on the technology side, then they might be, they might like your idea.

Tom Leonard 

No, AI is like the one thing that's going to get it. It's already changing things and it's going to change the game developments can change all kinds of things out there. The other thing I wanted to ask you about here before we wrap up is that you probably travel more than almost anyone that we come across. I mean, when you talk about all the places that you have been a speaker at, could you talk a little bit about

Sho Sato 

Great. Definitely.

Tom Leonard 

I guess two things, how you become a speaker, how did you become a speaker at so many different events? And what's the value of that? What's the value to you? I'm probably asking too many questions. What's the value to you and what's the value to them to have you come and speak?

Sho Sato 

Yes, actually it's very important to focus on your specialization. In my case, my specialization is about knowledge in the emerging market. And that's why I started from, I started, I did my first lecture in India like 10 years ago at that time. In this case, the Indian Game Oil Developers Organizer asked me to explain a little bit about how to work with a Japanese game company from an emerging game developers point of view. So, yeah, in this case, of course, how can I say I'm a Japanese guy? I have a connection with a Japanese game developer. And at the same time, I also know the mindset of the emerging game developers. So that's why I make a lecture based on that.

So yeah, I hope it works for the Indian developers, I hope so, but such knowledge, like how can I say, focusing on the specialization and for specializations and they combine the multiple specializations into the one part, it could help you to make a lot of speaker sessions, I feel. I don't know, it's too abstract, but yeah. So, but in my individual experience, such a focus is super important, yeah.

Tom Leonard

What I think is really interesting about this is just it's networking that gets you Get you know now there is it also part of your work. What was it was the company? Got it here on my little list media create With media create where you were you were creating the reports that you were talking about earlier Is it is it that kind of background that gave you the level of expertise that people wanted to hear from you?

Sho Sato 

Yes, definitely. Yeah, I'm very hard to say. I really appreciate the approval of my boss at the time. And actually, honestly speaking, you know that Japanese companies are usually very conservative, right? And they are mainly focused on the domestic market usually. But in my case, I'm very lucky to work with various emerging countries like India or Africa or such countries. So, yeah, in this case, I was super lucky about that. But at the same time, how can I say, my experience in the Middle East did really, really helpful for me. Because how can I say, if I don't have such experience, I cannot get such approval, I feel.

Tom Leonard 

I think one of the things... Go ahead, sorry.

Sho Sato 

So that's why keep working on the international network is always super important.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah. Well, it's always been to me really impressive how Japan has been able to work with so many parts of the world and be so successful in almost every industry out there because it's like it because I think in Japan and I've never been to Japan, but I just picture it society being a lot different than Western society with different, you know, a whole different approach to things and so on. And do you ever, you ever see that? Have you ever read that book?

Sho Sato 

Culture map. Could you elaborate a little bit more about what is the culture map?

Tom Leonard 

Culture map, it's been 10 years or so, but what she was doing is she went and she measured, she was reporting on different attributes for different parts of the world. On things like, you know, how aggressive, from a business perspective, how aggressive people were, how people, some people, you know, just told it like it was. And other people, it was much more consensus building, which you can imagine which country, which

Sho Sato 

Mm-hmm. Ah, I understand. I understand.

Tom Leonard 

We're like, but it was, it was so interesting because she went into so much detail and it was like, and the British were the most direct. The Germans, if I remember right, the Germans. Received direct communication, the best. I mean, you couldn't, you couldn't offend the Germans. I mean, they wanted to hear exactly what you had to say. They don't beat around the bush. Don't read between, don't make me read between the lines. Tell me what you think. But it was just interesting how she was mapping all these things out. And it's one of the things that it's always kind of fascinating. It's like when you think of Japan, when you think of Asia, and it's like the culture there is, you know, approaches business differently than in many other parts of the world. So that's why it's always interesting that coming from that culture there in Japan, Japan has been so successful in reading other cultures and figuring out how to do business there.

Sho Sato 

Yeah, actually, I'm a Japanese guy and I always feel that sometimes the way of the Japanese business style is sometimes too old and sometimes very conservative. And maybe because if I work with the executive of the big Japanese company, they cannot understand the way of thinking in a global way sometimes. But at the same time, it's also always great to have a very good branding for the international region. Yeah, it's really, really helpful for me, honestly speaking. And I really always appreciate international people's positive feelings about Japan. And yeah, but yeah. And in my case when it comes to the culture map, I am also lucky on this side. Because in Japan, Japan is very, how can I say, they don't, in Japan we have a proverb that silence is like silver. And it means that, like how can I say, the silence is better than the speaking or sometimes, yeah. So that's why I can say they don't speak so much. And like they are more, how can I say, like how can I say, they don't, they don't how can I say, want to clarify something or such things. But at the same time, if you look at the Middle East, they speak a lot and then yalla or the, yeah, like let's go, let's go, other such things. And then I feel like two extremes of such a harkness speaking style culture. So that's why I put the harkness, various harkness communication styles between these two things. So that's why I appreciate these two regions of harkness, knowledge and career, I think.

Tom Leonard 

Yes, yes. Well, years and years ago, just because I'm a lot older, I was probably working at Packard Bell before you were born. But Packard Bell was the biggest computer manufacturer in the 90s here based in California. And the leaders, it was a private company and the guys that owned it were Israeli. And Israelis, these particular ones, they were very verbal. And just like you're saying, they're very, very aggressive. But they were able to sell 20% of the company to NEC. And we always thought that we always wanted to be in the room when they were talking to the Japanese at NEC because that was, you know, cause that was not their style. And it was, it was just, it always, uh, we were so impressed that they were able to communicate well and, and connect with, uh, with Japanese people at NEC because the cultures, just like you're describing, are coming from two different places.

Tom Leonard

Working in different cultures is just part of the fun, I think. So, yeah, so I mean, I really appreciate you taking a little bit of time here because you just have such a great level of experience out there. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't get to?

Sho Sato 

Mm-hmm. Okay. So, I'm going to go ahead and show you how to do it.

Sho Sato 

Yeah, I think everything's fine. And it's really a big honor to be here and share my knowledge about incubation and acceleration here. So yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Tom Leonard 

No, we appreciate that. So where can people find you? LinkedIn, is that the best place?

Sho Sato 

Yes, LinkedIn is better, I think. Yeah, actually in Japan, LinkedIn is never popular, but I'm usually using LinkedIn. So yeah, it's great to connect you with LinkedIn. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

Okay, okay, so we'll put your links there. So yeah, to wrap up, it's just like, yeah, thanks, really appreciate you taking a little bit of your time here to give us your insight because you've had more experience than so many other people. So, Sho, we really appreciate it.

Sho Sato 

Thanks.

Sho Sato 

Yeah, thank you, Tom. Yeah, I really enjoyed talking with you. Thank you.

Tom Leonard 

Great. Thank you. So this is the Gamers Change Lives podcast. What we want is if you're listening to this podcast, especially if you're listening this far in the end, go and subscribe to the podcast wherever you are listening to podcasts and follow us on our social media, but most importantly, engage with us. We may not have the biggest audience out there, but we have a really good community of people that want to help each other. So go out there and engage with us. So thank you, Sho. This is the Gamers Change Lives podcast.

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