Venture Building in African Markets: Insights on Building Sustainable Businesses

Tom Leonard 

I'm Tom Leonard, I'm the host of the Gamers Change Lives podcast, where we talk about how esports can create jobs anywhere in the world. Play games, create jobs, change lives. Now in the past, in season one, we talked about jobs, in season two, we called it follow the money. We talked about investment, we talked about sponsorship. In season three, we talked about business basics, and now in season four, we're expanding a little bit. We call it accelerating esports success. We're talking to people around the world, telling the stories of how entrepreneurs, not just esports entrepreneurs, but also entrepreneurs, tap into resources from accelerators, incubators, and other platforms to hone their business skills. The goal of our conversation is to provide inspiration to entrepreneurs to seek the tools, training, the mentorship, the networking that's out there through these established platforms. Today, I am really, really happy to have Daniel Murky, who is speaking to us, and who has tremendous experience in Africa with Boxplay Ventures and even a podcast Change Africa podcast, which we will talk about. Welcome, Daniel.

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, thanks very much.

Tom Leonard 

So where are you speaking to us from?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

I'm in Accra, Ghana.

Tom Leonard 

Great, great. We have all kinds of Ghana connections with this podcast, which is one of the reasons that we're the success that we are because of the help that we've had there. So are you a gamer?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

I'm not. I have very little gaming experience in my entire life.

Tom Leonard 

Really? Why is that?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

I guess difficult to say, but I grew up, my first seven years I was between Guinea Bissau and Turkey and then when I was seven I moved to Switzerland and when I went to Switzerland of course there is like the first time I kind of got at least at a periphery in touch with gaming and all my friends were into it but for me I was just, I would say my first seven years I was just brought up with different tools and I had different interests.

Tom Leonard 

Got it. Not trying to put you on the spot there. It's just, one of the things that we're talking about here in this season is we're talking more about entrepreneurship than just esports. So the things that we're gonna be talking about would apply to anyone, whether they're an esports entrepreneur. Because one of the things that we find with a lot of the people that we talk to is that e-sports entrepreneurs typically come from gaming. They're gamers and they're like, wow, I wanna figure out how I can make a job out of this? How can I make a living out of this? So they come with gaming skills but not business skills. So the more that we're talking about business skills, the better it is for our audience. So did you grow up in Switzerland?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, I grew up in Switzerland. So from age seven, yeah, I went to school in Switzerland and then until I came to Ghana, but I was already from my working life.

Tom Leonard 

What languages do you speak?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

I would say German and English. I'm supposed to speak French, but I've not practiced it enough.

Tom Leonard 

I'm just curious. Yeah, you probably get more experience in Africa speaking French than anywhere else.

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, probably. But I mean, in Switzerland, it's like, when I went to school, we learned the second national language at age 12, and then I started learning English in school at 13. So that's why I'm saying I'm supposed to speak it pretty well, but I can write quite well and read quite well, but I've not really used it enough.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, speaking is completely different than reading and writing. So let's start out talking about BoxPlay Ventures because that fits in really well with what it is that we're talking about in this season. Can you describe a little bit about what BoxPlay Ventures is?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yes

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, of course. I mean, in a nutshell, basically BoxPlay Ventures is a venture builder and also a startup and SME consultant. But what it mainly means is we are across the entire early stage financing value chain. So we support and co-create ventures with entrepreneurs, basically from idea stage, stage zero, and take them basically towards the time where they are really investment ready and are able to raise in funding, let's say, at a series A. So we try to cover that whole value chain, and sometimes we describe ourselves as a corporate co-founder. What we mean with that, we do a lot of the boring things that some of the entrepreneurs who are very creative are not good with. So that could be accounting, that could be writing contracts, just defining workflows and all those kinds of stuff. That's where we usually come in. And then of course, we also align with in terms of strategy and provide strategic support as well.

Tom Leonard 

Where are your customers usually from your clients that you're working with? Are they from Africa or are they in other places as well?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

I mean, we are very much focused on Africa. But then when we say we consult startups, oftentimes the reality is it's either SMEs or, for instance, people from the diaspora or sometimes new entrants into the market which could come from abroad.

Tom Leonard 

Got it, got it. So how did it start? One of the things that's always interesting here is when we're talking to people about, how did things begin?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Begin? I mean, I guess when you come to ask the beginning question, sometimes it's always how far do you want to go back? But I think for me, I came to Ghana in 2007. And I did an internship in an investment bank, but our culture and the founder were very entrepreneurial. So I think there at least I got the I would say I got the back for wanting to make an impact and wanting to make that impact in Ghana. And as I left the investment bank, I started to think about it more from a macro level and where could I fit in? Where could I provide value? And that for me was like more top down in terms of supporting entrepreneurs. And that was kind of the initial thinking about it. And then the other part was just generally being passionate about the business side of things and passionate about all kinds of businesses working together with entrepreneurs. And I think along that line, there were the insights on why maybe some businesses or startups in our, in Ghana, in our region struggle and how we could support them. And that was kind of the initial pathway into box play. And yeah, now sometimes we put that in maybe more sophisticated language, but very plainly, that's kind of it. And yeah, also seeing that we think that is where we can provide value and really co-create the transformational companies together with entrepreneurs.

Tom Leonard 

Could you talk, could you, what is an investment bank? I always like to hear other people's descriptions, definitions, could you talk about what an investment bank is, what it does? And also, what did you learn there that you could apply then to other ventures?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

I mean, I'll talk a bit more from my personal experience. So at that time I joined the investment bank that I'm working with, which was an indigenous Ghanaian investment bank. We were very strong on corporate finance at that time. And what that means is we were basically helping companies, corporates to access funding. So that could be through an IPO, through an initial public offering, coming to the Ghana Stock Exchange. That could be through a private placement, that could be to all kinds of ways on how they raise funding. And that's one side of it. The, and I spent, I mean, my initial first year where I was working there, I spent probably nine months in that function. I also worked in the Brookridge department. So in brokerage, basically, we're buying and buying, selling equities on the Ghana Stock Exchange for our clients. And the other part was asset management, where we had a fund, which is basically like now collecting a collective investment of funds and then we kind of make the buying decisions across different equities on the Ghana Stock Exchange and also some other instruments like treasury bills and so on. So those were kind of the departments with which I worked in initially and then what was very interesting for me when I came back, I went back to Switzerland in 2008 and then I came back as a senior investment analyst and worked there for two years and aside of what's ongoing on the Ghana private equity deals as well, which was very interesting for me. So an example or two examples, two of my main projects. One example was we created Africa World Airlines. So that was an airline together with Hainan Airlines. But basically we created the business plan, the project. The founder of the investment bank was the founder or co-founder of the airline. What is interesting I would say is really at that intersection where it really becomes entrepreneurial as well where it's not just purely the investment banking part of things. It's just for me how you can really conceptualize something from a desktop starting putting things together and just aligning the pieces. But then also the entrepreneurial part is where eventually you probably want more than that and also kind of being the creator. So that is, of course, that's maybe the intersection where it stopped for me as an investment banker. Another example is we worked with Accra Hearts of Oak, which is the oldest football club in Ghana. And basically, yeah, we did an initial public offering. So we didn't place the shares on the stock exchange, but it became a public company and got a new majority shareholder. So those were kind of the projects that I worked on. And ultimately when you do these things at the end of the day, it's just a lot of problem solving in the background, because there's always obstacles or things that might not have been done perfectly in the past. And the job to some extent is to find a solution in reality and then the solution on paper as well, so that going forward, it becomes an investable company and also aligns it with the strategy. So what I would say is ultimately it is I mean, people talk about it sometimes in some, almost in an esoteric fashion, but it's closer to reality and what is happening on the ground. It's basically businesses that need to raise money, larger businesses, businesses that need to redefine their strategy. And that's kind of what we are doing. So a lot of repackaging, putting the business on the ground, the operational part, and then linking it to how we can get the financing.

Tom Leonard 

That just must be a great education to work there as an analyst to get to see so many different operations. I mean, you're talking about football, you're talking about airlines. It's like, you know, to be able to have a little bit of experience is, would be really, really good. In box play, who are the participants usually? Could you describe a typical participant?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Like a typical founder that we work with. Is that, yes. I mean, like let me give you, let me paint a persona kind of. I mean, I see two. One is like somebody with relatively less work experience. So for instance, it could be a graduate or somebody doing national service and having that entrepreneurial drive and wanting to build a business, but not having the necessary experience or business know-how. I think that could be a typical persona. And another persona is for instance, a founder that is already working in space, trying to kind of tackle a problem that we want to solve or a similar problem. And despite being committed, despite probably not earning any money and putting even personal funds into the business, something is blocked somewhere. And usually that could be maybe a mistake or a wrong business model that was initially set up. It could be the wrong team. It could again be that lack of business know-how. So in that instance, it's also very attractive for us to come in with somebody like that and kind of be able to analyze. Okay, what is missing? Maybe they are missing the right founding partner. Maybe there is somebody technical that needs to be on board. Maybe they don't have a go-to-market strategy, but we can kind of identify that and then put these pieces together. So really, basically, entrepreneurs, founders that have some level of deficit somewhere, maybe, on formal business know-how. Because I'm always saying, if you can do those things yourself then probably you might not need to go to a venture builder. If genuinely you have that capacity, then maybe you go somewhere else that can also support you, but maybe support with something else, and you don't need to give up equity for somebody to come in with structure, strategy, and operational workflows.

Tom Leonard 

I keep hearing you use the term venture builders. Could you, I promise it's not gonna be a whole session of asking you to define things, but could you describe what venture builders are from your perspective?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah. From my perspective, it's just like, as I said, I mentioned that word before. I interpret it as being a corporate co-founder, but maybe also when you look at it, if you would look at it, the assembly line and the product that we create is ultimately a company. So you would ask yourself. What are the ingredients that you need to put together to create a company? So maybe in comparison to an individual founder, we look at it more from a very process driven perspective and how we can do that repetitively. So of course, what are the ingredients? You need a founding team. You need some level of capital and then you need to create a technological product. So we are looking at all these different aspects and trying to break them down into repeatable processes as far as that is possible. It's not everything that you can do like that. But there's a lot of things like the workflows I described that you can at least lend from each other or save costs from one project to the other. So I would say we as venture builders, we put things together on that assembly line and kind of try to create a company as our product, including the structure, the governance and so on and so forth.

Tom Leonard 

How many companies have you created?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Now with BoxPlay, we are still very early doors. So if I were to say how many companies, I would say three. But then to qualify this, there are different levels or different kinds of companies that they are. There are some that I'm still at a stage where it's very dependent on me. So to some extent, that's not the product that I described. It's not a fully-fetched program if we, as founders or co-founders, have to keep it alive. And then there are other ones that I would not qualify in the sense that maybe they don't have that ambition of scale. So those are smaller projects that we just did for different utility cases.

Tom Leonard 

Now, and again, it'd just be really interesting to be able to deal with so many different companies out there. When it comes to recruiting founders, it's like, from your perspective, how do you find founders? And then could you talk about, if you're a founder out there, what's the best way to get the attention of organizations like yours? How is the matchup created in most cases?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, I mean, it's a very critical part. So it's a very important question at the same time. It's also one that. I have to be honest that we don't have, I don't have a systemic, like a repeatable solution. So it can be very non-systemic, but I think the most important part from our side is just to try to be embedded within the ecosystem, try to be where founders are, try to be where there's people that want to make an impact. And I think for us in our ecosystem, something that we have not yet done or definitely not done sufficiently, but we want to do is to get closer to tertiary institutions. So already identify students with entrepreneurial talent ambition at that stage, and then try to, from an ecosystem perspective, to grow them already so that we kind of have a pool of founders down the line. And then from the perspective of an entrepreneur, I always say it's like ultimately, if you're an entrepreneur, what you need are insights. So my advice for entrepreneurs to find organizations is always try to chase the insights, get the insights that you will require to make, like to build that business, to make that business successful. So it boils down to the same. If you are a founder that has some deficiencies in business know-how, maybe you're more inclined to go closer towards a venture builder like us. Or maybe you can find it at some program for free. Great. You can find a mentor. But just go down that path of chasing the insights you require to solve the problem or to fulfill your ambition. And I think along the way, that's where the learnings are. And ultimately, if your ambition is big enough at the stage where you set out to solve the problem, you do not have the answers. And no investor, no venture builder has all the answers. Otherwise, the venture builder or an investor would solve the problem by him or herself. So you kind of go for those insights. So if you, for instance, have a way to get in touch with BoxPlayer or with Daniel Murky and you talk to me, let's say on LinkedIn, ask the questions you need. See, that's the way Daniel explained things. That has helped me to gain insights. Is that valuable to me? And then you go from there. Maybe you don't want to start as a venture builder. Is there a potential to get me on as an advisor or as a mentor or have my number and ask a question once every two months? I think that the best way to go for entrepreneurs is to really stay true to just gathering knowledge about the problem you want to solve.

Tom Leonard 

What's the value of mentorship? And how do organizations like yours create mentorship opportunities?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

I mean, the value of mentorship. I think there are multiple aspects. Even when I talk, let's say, when I work within my firm, that's not directly mentorship, but let's say I work with junior talent or employees of mine, there are employees that work within a field that I understand very well. So that's very different from me guiding somebody where I'm not the expert on the subject matter itself. So I think there is a level of general how to go about things and then there is deep expertise. So I think that's a differentiation in terms of mentorship. So when you go for deep expertise, I think you have to look at people that have track records that can tell you actual things they have done, give you examples that you might not easily find on YouTube or in the books. Maybe I described how I worked on the airline project. There will not be that much information on how you can establish an airline in Ghana or in West Africa? That might be quite limited information to get insights. So if that's your space, you try and get somebody who has walked the path, at least to some extent. And then on the mentorship, on the other side, on how to go about things, it's an approach on how to think. So that's how I look at the mentorship part. So now when I'm mentoring you and you, it falls within my area of expertise. Yes, I go with that. But if I don't have the expertise, I would look for people who have that and still kind of try to enable that connection. So that could be my advisory board member that I know is an expert in branding and marketing and me having somebody more junior work so let them have conversations with them and again it's similar to the entrepreneur it's like give them insights give them more examples and um i mean the need for mentorship can change over time and i also personally feel sometimes you can even have a mentor that you don't know. I mean you could go on YouTube and you just have an entrepreneur that kind of speaks your language or you understand intuitively what he's referring to so you can watch videos and just kind of learn from there. So I think it always depends but that is kind of how I'm looking at it.

Tom Leonard 

When you're talking about founders, it's like one of the things I keep picturing is that you need founders who understand their deficiencies and are curious about filling them. And my guess is that that's not a big trait that a lot of founders would necessarily have. And maybe it's just my stereotype, founders kind of think they can do it all. And so to me, it's like a really good founder could be someone that realizes they can't do it all, but they need help in doing things. Do you find that founders are usually out there seeking help?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yes, I think good founders do. And I think good founders need to be humble. Of course, being humble can be expressed differently because you have a lot of founders that are very out there in terms of their personality and everything. But ultimately, behind closed doors, do you really think you know it all? I think that's, if you generally think that, I think in most cases, that's a recipe for disaster. I guess there's always exceptions to rules, but I think the reason why I say humility is required is because you need to gain more and more and more insights to solve the problems. And I think that comes with an acknowledgement that there's a lot of things about even the problem that I solved that I've worked years on that I do not understand. Yeah, maybe the humility factor lacks in the sense of, am I able to learn it and solve it? And maybe there is some level of irrational confidence that founders display and maybe also need in like even by what I said earlier that by definition, if you have a big ambition, you do not know how to solve it. So for you to then still embark on that journey with open eyes, that takes like, yeah, that takes a special or specific type of person.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, I think founders that are curious are probably the best ones out there that always want to learn Life in general. People are more interested if they're curious about things and want to go out and do things. Your program if someone joins your program, do they provide funding?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Okay, let me just clarify in terms of program, we don't have a full venture building program that we are running reoccurring at this stage. We are working towards that. But now previously, the founders we invested like we worked with, we made investments. So it was a combination of making investments and providing operational support. And in an ideal world, we would also quantify our operational input. But at this stage, at a stage where it was maybe more ad hoc than a fully-fledged program is. So we just valued our cash contributions mainly as our input for the equity. But then, yeah, so I would say in terms of programs, we are developing a few things here, but nothing is set in stone because the large part that we need to solve to have a reoccurring program is the funding because as a venture builder I think that's one of the main problems you have is that you are building companies that's your product and so that means even if successful you're looking probably at exits seven between seven to ten years and how do you fund operational support for these ventures reinvesting into new ventures over that period. So I think that's the crooks that we have to solve. So our initial investments for us was to some extent, a proof of concept and the need to build a track record. And now we are trying to turn that into a more sustainable system where we can eventually produce two to three companies annually.

Tom Leonard 

Got it, got it. When it comes to getting funding out there, and it's like, just like you are describing, it's like, it's the biggest thing, it's the biggest obstacle that most founders come up against. It's rare for a founder to have too much money. It's like, it's not, and that's probably not a good thing either. But in general, from your experience, where can founders find funding? This is the loaded question that everyone wants. Everyone wants a really quick and easy answer, but that does not exist.

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, everybody wants that answer. There are the classical sources. I mean everybody will tell you, first go with your own reserves, try and bootstrap, then you go to friends and family, and like angel investors and all of it. But in our scenarios, like you look at an average Ghanaian a lot of these things might not be available. I mean, bootstrapping to what extent, how much money do I have saved, friends and family giving you funds for a high-risk venture might also be quite unlikely. So that is, as you are saying, that is a major challenge. But then again, you have to look on the ground and just see what is out there and kind of make use of it. So a peculiarity, for instance, not a peculiarity, but dominant in Ghana, we have a lot of grant funding because there are development organizations and so on. And for instance, myself, I see that to some extent as an inhibitor for creativity for entrepreneurs. But on the other side, I also see it as a reality of our market. So you could be smart in positioning aspects of your business, especially non-core aspects of your business, to align with some of those grants and use them to finance those operations initially or proof of concepts. So to make it more tangible, you could be, let's say, a delivery startup and that you could ask yourself is that you work with different motorbike riders. Is there a grant that could upskill them? Is there a grant that would support female empowerment so that you can do certain programs? Is there a training program that you could offer that aligns with your, with your core business to some extent and is there funding for some of those programs? And the other good thing about that is that once you are able to secure some of those you kind of you come you become attached to that organization that gave you let's say that initial grant and they usually would want you to be a success story so they might open doors for you to go to the next because it's a good thing for me to tell you that daniel or box play gave you five thousand dollars and look at where the business is now. Obviously, it's not my 5,000 that did all of that work, but it's a good reference point for me. So it's like here that I might make a recommendation for that particular startup that went through my program and say, hey, Tom, these are some great guys. I think you should go, you should have a chat with them. Maybe you are a potential

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

That is one part. And then again, it's, of course, a hard thing to say to founders that, of course, funding, I know funding is critical, but sometimes you really have to look at the other side as well of how you can achieve things with lesser funds. And then you just try and leverage the little you have done. So it's a storytelling component to it where if I was able to achieve this with $2,000, Tom, look at what I did with $2,000. If you give me $20,000, think about what we can do and kind of embed that in a story form. So there are a lot of avenues that for instance, in our system are almost out. I mean, the story of you getting a credit card and doing overdraft or loan in our high interest environment, those are not really feasible alternatives. So it's maybe dancing a bit around a straightforward answer, but what I have to tell you in this case is if you're really starting without a strong network, you have to be creative and you have to tell your story.

Tom Leonard 

Yes, storytelling. So what I like hearing you say is, did someone that gives you a grant is interested in your success? And maybe they're not set up in a way to give you more money, but they may be able to open doors that other people may not have access to. I always tell people, because we kind of stumbled on the American embassy in most countries and every country around the world has funding for different types of projects, and it varies from country to country. So it's like what I'm always telling people is like, hey, go check it out because they may have funding for something just the kind of examples that you were giving there. And the other thing is that if the American Embassy gives you money, they want you to be a success and they wanna be able to say, just like you're saying, that, hey, we did this to help someone and this is what they were able to do. So you know, the embassy or any kind of grant, anyone that gives away grants, they want to, so if you can be a good storyteller and make them look like the hero, that's gonna benefit you in ways that you probably didn't think about. The other thing is, I think the other thing, and maybe you would have an idea on this, it seems like a lot of programs out there also focus on what happens after the program. So someone goes through an accelerator, someone goes through an incubator. It's like, okay, what about this alumni network that you end up with afterwards? It seems like that is incredibly valuable out there to be able to have those connections down the road. Do you see this happening?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

The network, I mean, definitely, I mean, the network is definitely valuable because it's also a pool of people that went through similar experiences trying to chase the same thing. So there's a lot of insights and learning there. And I think depending on the program you go through there, eventually there can also be like a rubber stamp in addition to the network that helps you. I mean, that sounds similar to, let's say you're going to a certain school, for instance, yes, you get the alumni network, but you also get some level of credentials that can then help you further. And what it definitely does is in this day and age, it's like, if you have access points to people, it's like you can reach out on LinkedIn and everything. It's like, so you really, it's not just that you say, oh, there are 100 alumni. It's like, you can reach them, even if there is not a direct contact, because once you have that kind of introduction level, that helps. And yeah, but then again, I mean, that depends on the program. And then in our context as well, it's sometimes getting into a foreign accelerator program or something that can be the ultimate rubber stand. And it can even help you with increased valuations going forward. But you know, sometimes it's like, I'm going back to the storytelling part. It's like you are going for a job interview. Two people have the same experiences, but it's again, how do you leverage that? How do you even tell the story of when I went to this accelerator, I got this insight, I can do this A, B, C, D versus someone else who is not able to talk about it. So it's like, the same with the alumni network, it's like how do you activate it? And how are you also valuable to other alumnus? Because usually I think it's an exchange thing to some extent. If people realize that you add value and you are helpful, usually at large people would want to help you too. So I think it's better probably to look at it from a long-term perspective and just also how can you contribute value? And I think it will come back to you too.

Tom Leonard 

Do you find in the places that you work in that government and universities are maybe more supportive directly of entrepreneurs? Here in the US, we don't have, the US government doesn't give you necessarily, I mean, there may be someone somewhere that you can find some grants, but it'd be relatively uncommon. And universities are playing a bigger role in developing entrepreneurship. Do you find that governments in universities where you are support entrepreneurship more directly?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

I'd say it's probably something that is now evolving and then of course I mean there is there is examples of universities for instance in I mean just to name one in Ghana probably I think Ashesi has done a good job to create entrepreneurs and for instance I think it was just today that I saw again that they are getting and they as universities are getting like or part of the venture creation for entrepreneurs to support students is getting 1.2 million to build entrepreneurs in the climate space. So I think it's something that is increasing. And also what I think also needs to change maybe is the profile or the picture of what an entrepreneur is, and it being something that is a first choice for people. Because I think in our markets, we have like, it can be very challenging for graduates to get a job. So you might end up with graduates that were not able to obtain a job that then want to position themselves as entrepreneurs. So that's which mostly I would say it's a problem, but then how can we, or even like universities, accelerators, all of them, how can we paint the picture of the opportunity of entrepreneurship, how necessary it is, and do that early enough to really attract talented people with entrepreneurial talent to go down that path early enough.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, yeah, it works differently in different places, for sure. One of the things I want to talk about, I don't want to run out of time here, it's like one of the things I heard on your LinkedIn profile, enabling African entrepreneurs to create solutions to Africa's most challenging problems. Could you talk a little bit, because you have a unique experience there of being in Switzerland, I mean, and being familiar, maybe more familiar than some with how business is done in Europe. Can you describe what some of Africa's most challenging problems are?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, I mean, when I'm most challenging, and I have to say most challenging and common. So what I point at with the common is we are really talking about problems that affect the masses. And these are somewhat maybe in developed country, basic, basic stuffs like transportation. How do you get to work? So that could be access to water, that could be access to the toilet. So in many cases these problems are really access problems across the population. And what it also is that then when you say across the population, then that means you go into more informal markets too. And I think to solve those problems, you need an understanding of those informal markets, a deep understanding. So you cannot just build or take business models from somewhere else and drop them here and think it would work. The business models you create need to align with the market behavior. You need to understand it and embed that in the product you build in the business model. 

Tom Leonard 

Okay, if people don't listen to anything else in this whole podcast, that's one of the most important things right there.

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, and the and then even from a box place perspective one of the Reasons why we think what we do is really critical is because Ultimately, who are the people? That understands those problems the best. It's the people that experience the problem. But then when you don't give those people access to education for instance, how do you create the people that are coming to solve the problem? So it's quite a challenge. So the question is where can we position ourselves to kind of broaden the pool of entrepreneurs? How can maybe some non-in quotes, non-conventional entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs from non-conventional backgrounds still get the support to access funding because they might be the ones that understand these informal settings, the market dynamics, the social economic to it better. And I think that's the ultimate for African entrepreneurs because once we do that we will create solutions that eventually are different to the solutions that we see out there and once we produce that opens up the scope of what is possible because once you come from a unique perspective. You might all of a sudden also create solutions that are even adaptable now in reverse to other areas. So I guess, yeah, that's my long answer as to which problems. It's not necessary. It's not. There's so many. It's like even health care. What do you do for people to access health care? It's not just to put the facility there. So it's understanding and listening to the market. So that probably goes back to the curiosity that you mentioned earlier as well.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, I mean, you certainly would not want to wish more problems on anyone, but problems also lend themselves to opportunities to do something to help people that may not be available to everyone. Could you talk about the difference between female and male founders?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yes, I mean that's a Daniel answer, that's not a box play answer, because that's really based on personal experiences. And also when we spoke about the humility component to get insights, I think there are differences between female founders and male founders. With what I have experienced with female founders is often a higher degree of de-risking. So I'm not talking about not taking the risk, I'm taking to really think through it and go and see how we can mitigate risk beforehand. And I’m also seeing probably a higher level of experimentation. I'm not talking about technology experimentation to see what's the feedback from the market versus I guess there is a higher there is often a higher degree of confidence with the male, but of course the confidence can turn if you are wrong and you're too confident. That's a problem. And then the other thing is there's sometimes maybe a higher level of entitlement with male founders just because maybe they're more used to be in certain rooms. And again, that might now sound as if it is so negative, but sometimes again, if you pitch in front of an investor, it is that entitlement or that confidence or overconfidence that can secure you your investment. So I guess it's always two-sided, but then ultimately, I mean, you want founders that understand the value of building a meritocracy. And if you truly do that, I think you'll get diverse teams. I mean, if you're really willing to listen to different perspectives and try to hire the best people, you would probably want to end up with a diverse team. And if you do not end up with a diverse team, then maybe there is something somewhere that you are not considering. Maybe there are so many obstacles for, let's say, females, and you just measuring with one yardstick is not you picking the best people. So sometimes you have to take that into consideration. But I would say beyond male and female, of course, entrepreneurs are already a rare group. And you just, yeah, you just need a mix of those characteristics. And I think there are some that, yes, females are more, generally speaking, more aligned with, and some males are more. So usually a good mix is probably the best in an ideal world.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but it's not... But there is a difference. I mean, there's a difference for all kinds of groups out there. And I've always understood that there are probably more female entrepreneurs in Africa than maybe in other parts of the world or there is a difference for all kinds of groups?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yes, but I mean the problem with that or not the problem, but you also have to look at what's the definition of an entrepreneur. So when you speak to me and I'm talking about entrepreneurship, I'm dreaming of transformational entrepreneurs that can build enterprises that can scale across the continent and even beyond and maybe employ 10,000 or even 100,000 people in the future. So that's very different than somebody being a sole proprietor or somebody doing a small restaurant and being happy with having five employees which there's nothing wrong with that but so when we with those with those numbers let me say in Ghana oh I mean it's you'll be hard pressed to find in Ghana somebody who has never done a business so when I came to Ghana and I was working even in the investment bank and we were working long hours starting to rise, everybody is having a side business. Everybody is open to doing something entrepreneurial. But then, so that for instance, that points at an entrepreneurial culture, but you also see that you can also say the other way around. Nobody's willing or few people are really willing to jump off and go all out for a business. So even with the nature of some of the businesses that these females have, it would be interesting to really look into what kind of businesses, what are the ambitions of these businesses before we can really analyze what that means from an entrepreneurship perspective.

Tom Leonard

I like hearing you describe that difference between being a sole proprietor and an entrepreneur that is building a bigger business. One thing I also wanted to ask you about is your podcast. We're obviously interested in how podcasts work here. So the Change Africa podcast, can you talk about how it started and what is it that you're trying to do there?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, I think it's really interesting because at that stage I was in Nigeria and I was looking for Ghanaian founders. So I started to think about how to become more visible and I was really not good at it. So initially I started reaching out to people on LinkedIn and then you arrange, you reach out, you have a few calls and then you realize, oh no alignment, but you've spent an hour or 30 minutes talking to the person, then the next. So the next step that I realized is, okay, probably it would be better to build some level of profile and persona so that I attract the people rather than me reaching out to individuals. So then I became more active on LinkedIn and maybe also other social media. And as part of that, I was like, okay, probably a podcast would be a good idea. So I started putting down like a one pager and was trying to put a team together that would help me to create a podcast in Nigeria, but I kind of just didn't find the right fit, it didn't click when I tell people my vision and what I want to do, it just didn't align. And then in December, 2021, I came to Ghana and I had an interaction with a founder in the, in a, in the ghost kitchen space. And just at the end of the call, I mentioned, I thought, just mentioned it. So I mentioned a podcast and he tells me he has the perfect podcast. He has the perfect person. So he connects me to the founder, founder of Change Africa podcast, which, so he had done a season already. I went to check. I saw it was a while back. So he did a first season and the next season didn't come out. He connected, he connected us and basically. We had a six hour, we met at the Akron Mall and we had a six hour discussion and we walked away as 50-50 partners. And the reason was because our visions were already kind of aligned. When I presented him with my one-pager, he showed me what he had done. And it basically was for us really to showcase diverse, unique stories of African change makers, giving them a platform. And so that was the initial premise. But the truth is that as we have been doing it, as I'm part of this, it's far more than that. Because I now started, as we are doing it, I now started to actually understand what it means when you say a new African narrative and why it's important to create that narrative. And that's partially because I came from Switzerland. So I had my role models. I probably had this, but then you start to realize this is a different context. You need to create that. You need to give these people the platform. And also the learning and the insights that I gained from it is something that I did not think about, but it's fascinating how people can create their circumstances when they are really determined. And I think that's what you learn from these people, especially from people that operate within really, I would say, severe constraints and still become changemakers. And you see that determination, those kind of role models that we showcase, that's the real value to doing the Change Africa podcast. And yeah, so that's kind of it.

Tom Leonard

That's one of the best descriptions that I've heard because that's exactly how I see podcasting. I didn't wake up one day and say, oh, I want to be a podcaster because everyone has a podcast. So I want to podcast. It's like, no, it's like, here's an opportunity for other people to tell their stories. It's like, I'm not an expert on all this stuff, but that's the idea. I don't have to be an expert. I just need to be an expert. And Reginald has been the hero on finding people like you that have good stories to tell and I just get to help tell them. It's completely true about LinkedIn. It's like when you're on LinkedIn and you don't have a podcast and you approach them, it's like, oh, when I set up a time to talk and all this is like, yeah, it's an awkward situation. But it's like, oh, I have a podcast. It's like, oh, okay, it opens doors, and again, just like you're saying, yeah, I mean, we've had three, we're on the fourth season, we've had 65 episodes, not huge out there. We don't have a huge audience, but we have a really good community of people that we've connected because of the podcast. So I completely agree with the way that you describe the benefits. You don't need to say they're your favorites, but what are some of the best episodes that you've been a part of, that you think of? When people say, what was your favorite episode? It's like, what are the kinds of things that come to mind? It's like, which is your favorite kid?

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Yeah, I mean I could name several depending on what I highlight, but I mean, I had this question before. One is an episode with a guy called Teddy Totimi. He's a Ghanaian neurosurgeon. And just fascinating in the sense of, again how they use little resources and to just make it happen. And he's a neurosurgeon, but he writes a lot, so he's really reflective and he's able to kind of make the analogies. And for instance, in that one as well, I got like, he made a statement that for me was like kind of a light bulb moment, like a click, because he made that analogy of, he made the statement that it is immoral for us as society in Ghana to expect that neurosurgeons or doctors do have to return to Ghana to serve kind of because of course he said in order for him to become a neurosurgeon he had to go out there and there was no support. So yes he is one of at that time I think it was 30 neurosurgeons in the country that is here in the country sorry but he says that demand is immoral and then he made an analogy of a player being at and having to come and play at a substandard pitch here in Accra, let's say, and how that person might not even be able to perform or not sustain an injury because it's like such a different setting. And he really made those examples on the job. So I found that very fascinating. There is another one, which is a two-hour plus, I think two-hour, 20 minutes conversation with David Hundein. So he's like a very well-known investigative journalist in Nigeria. And I mean, it's hard to describe, because it was really two hours, 20 minutes, so condensed. Or somebody who had to share his story. Because it's like basically there was no discussion, because it's an hour long podcast. There was no consideration of stopping him, because the way the conversation went, we were just like, let the guy talk. And I really feel, I read a comment today on LinkedIn about that particular podcast and in the comment, the person kind of stated in Nigeria stated that. The change Africa podcast really did a good job on journaling the thoughts and the insights of this journalist for prosperity. And I think that's another thing when you look at creating information that can live out there. So you might not know who is listening to it and what influence it can have. But I think those were two examples, but we had many other great conversations, but I think they just stand out one because of probably also their professions, because it's the only neurosurgeon we had, the only investigative journalist we had on the podcast.

Tom Leonard 

This is obviously an audio podcast, but you should see his face when he's talking about these things. He lights up when he's talking about it. It's like one of the things that we did, and again, there's a lot of different great moments, but when we had Kwesi Hayford from Ghana talking with his team going to Bali, it's just like, turn over the mic, just let them go. It's just like, because they were just, it was great to hear their story.

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Hehehe. Yeah, I mean, I know Kwesi; definitely an amazing and passionate person. I mean, he's not stopping.

Tom Leonard 

Yes, you just, yeah. All you do is just put him in front of the camera with the guys that went. It's just like, it was a life-changing event for them. And for them to, it was great to hear their stories. So, hey, I really appreciate your time here. This has been really interesting. Where can people find you?

Daniel Kwaku Merki

Yep.

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Where can people find me? That's an interesting question. If people want to connect with me, I think, I mean, number one, I'm in Accra. So for all Ghanaians, you can still, the same way as anyone else, ultimately, I mean, I'm on social media. I think my most active place is LinkedIn. I think that's just because it's the medium, that's maybe more of a long writing format that I'm comfortable sharing and usually, I'm usually responsive. Let me not over promise. I say usually, and I'm easy to catch in terms of passion. So if it's something entrepreneurial, if it's a question, if it's something that I can do, I'm usually reachable via LinkedIn. And otherwise we have a contact form for BoxPlay Ventures, which if you respond there, you get a response. The response might not be from me, but it goes to me, my core founder, or our administrative person. And usually we would respond.

Tom Leonard 

Great, great, we'll put some links in the show now that it's there. Now, I really appreciate your time here. This has been a good conversation. We'll probably be putting it out fairly quickly here and we'll let you know about it. So again, this is Tom Leonard. This is the Gamers Change Lives podcast. Play games, create jobs, change lives. Go out there and engage with us on social media. Follow us on whatever platform you're using to listen to podcasts.

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Okay, great.

Tom Leonard 

But engage with us on social media. So we always appreciate hearing from our audience. So thanks again, Daniel.

Daniel Kwaku Merki 

Thanks very much. It was great to be on the podcast.

Tom Leonard 

Great. Gamers Change Lives podcast. Play games, create jobs, change lives. Thanks for listening.